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Seelie or Unseelie Based on Type?

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Member

Summer Rush

Minnesota

posts 79

9:09 pm January 18, 2011

Hey-o! It's Summer again. I've been doing some reading on the Dullahan, an Irish Unseelie faerie. My interest in this type of Fae came from an anime, known as 'Durarara!!'. In this show, the character is basically just a human with no head that has no heart or functioning organs. She is altogether a friendly creature. Now, I know better than to put much stock into things I see on TV and in books, no worries! But this got me to thinking- can you really say whether a faerie is Unseelie or Seelie based on what type of faerie it is? [[Please note that I also realize the Dullahan is kind of.. fanciful... Probably not a real kind of Fae as described, but as the Dullahan is what sparked my interest... :P]]

I quote Wikipedia:

From article 'Dullahan':
The Irish dullahan (also Gan Ceann Meaning, "Without a head" in Gaelige) is a type of unseelie fairie. It is headless, usually seen riding a black horse and carrying his head under one arm. The head's eyes are massive and constantly dart about like flies, while the mouth is constantly in a hideous grin that touches both sides of the head. The flesh of the head is said to have the color and consistency of moldy cheese. The dullahan's whip is actually a human corpse's spine, and the wagons they sometimes use are made of similarly funereal objects (e.g. candles in skulls to light the way, the spokes of the wheels made from thigh bones, the wagon's covering made from a worm-chewn pall). When the dullahan stops riding, it is where a person is due to die. The dullahan calls out their name, at which point they immediately perish.

From article 'Durarara!! > Celty Sturluson:
The heroine of the series. Also known as "The Black Biker" or "The Headless Rider", she is a Dullahan from Ireland who came to Japan looking for her stolen head. Her motorcycle is actually a horse in disguise. She has no heart and perceives via unknown sensors that are not located on the head. The physical strength she possesses is above human, though not quite on par with Shizuo Heiwajima. She is also capable of manipulating a shadow-like, durable substance to form objects ranging from gloves to chariots at her will.

As I said, I of course don't put much stock into TV and books, but it just got me to thinking- is it true that some kinds of Fae are STRICTLY Seelie or Unseelie? Or is it possible for them to switch sides?

I hope this wasn't too confusing to follow.

Sincerely,
Summer Rush

Be the Frootloop in a world of Cheerios.

Member

Bluefirephoenix

posts 891

4:48 am January 19, 2011

Something like that it's not just an individual. I suppose it could change but it's unlikly to. The anime characters can be named after something but it's just a character in a game or cartoon. The characters are sometimes loosely based in legend but I doubt they do more than read a brief introduction which may or may not have information in it that is close to the source.

…. Something kinda boggled me yesterday there was a brand name medication named after a demon. That kinda creeped me out.

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Member

No

posts 89

5:02 am January 19, 2011

"The characters are sometimes loosely based in legend but I doubt they do more than read a brief introduction which may or may not have information in it that is close to the source."

heh.

I thought it was hilarious that the lead writer for Dragon Age:Origins (a video game) named the lead female character Morrigan, who is a shapeshifting "Witch of the Wilds", but was completely baffled by people drawing comparisons to the character and the mythological Morrigan. He had no idea there even was one. He just took the name off of a character his friend made for Dungeons and Dragons.

Member

Bluefirephoenix

posts 891

5:27 am January 19, 2011

Exactly. You know thought sometimes they get the character kinda sorta right without doing any research.. I find that kinda interesting because it might be an indication of some channeling going on. Remember the legends have been changed over the years where celtic mythology is concerned in particular, because of Catholic influence and attempts at repression. So I think sometimes the dieties in particular try to get through this way.

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Member

Athidal

posts 646

12:03 pm January 19, 2011

Not all writers are so clueless. Sometimes they actually do some research, and sometimes they simply take the basic gist of a myth and extrapolate from it in order to create a fun story. (Yuu Yuu Hakusho was a pretty good one for that, for example.)

I thought it was funny that Summer-chan mentioned a 'dullahan', because it's pretty obscure, yet there is another fairly recent anime called "Slayers" that also featured a dullahan in its latest season. (Naturally, being the show it is, the dullahan in "Slayers" was terrifying at first and then the story arc wandered off into the hilariously absurd.)

I sometimes wonder whether humans don't simply create 'categories' of fae based on having seen one somewhere, once, doing something. The story of the dulahan seems…well, pretty specific for having a whole bunch of guys just like that around. Or possibly the particular manifestation that was seen was an illusion created to strike fear into whoever sees it. So I'm thinking a dulahan may well not even be an actual race of beings as we think of 'race'.

I'm not really sure that it's possible to claim a 'type' of fae is strictly seelie or unseelie. As was mentioned earlier, like with human politics it's probably a matter of personal choice. Though…anyone who chooses to go around spreading fear isn't likely to be a friend, that's for sure.

Member

No

posts 89

1:51 pm January 19, 2011

Bluefirephoenix

Thats weird.
In Dragon Age the elven civilization and primitive humans lived together during the world's pre-history. During that time the elves shared their knowledge and language with humanity. But eventually the humans formed a empire called the Tevinter Imperium and declared war against the elves. After a long war, the humans used a spell that “sunk the elvish capital beneath the ground”. Any survivors were enslaved by the humans. Save for some of the elves remaining amongst humans, I'd say there are some definite parallels to myth even if the writers didn't intend for it.

If some of that may have been channeled somehow, then I find it kind of interesting that to the people who've played it, the last dlc they released for the game, Witch Hunt, apparently features a magical elvish mirror. When my xbox gets back from repair in a couple of weeks I should probably get it.

Athidal

I find most anime creepy, but I remember liking Yu Yu Hakusho. I stopped watching it though after the focus shifted away from investigating spirits messing around in the human world.

Back on topic though, I would imagine it might be a more cultural thing. Using our fiction as an example, the Drow (Dark Elves) of the Forgotten Realms aren't intrinsically evil, they just live in a culture that values concepts like deception and cruelty while rejects things such compassion or love – worshiping an insane goddess like Lolth doesn't help them much either. Because of this Drow are abused from a early age by their elders in order to “toughen them up” and by the time those children become adults themselves they do the same to their children.

Also on them having an encounter with a fae. I remember Guillermo del Toro admitted in an interview that he saw a faun once as a child. He just decided to change the faun's appearance from beautiful to something more inhuman to match the rest of the style of Pan's Labyrinth. I guess the same could be true for the writers of Slayers.

http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_visi…..-supranatu

Member

Bluefirephoenix

posts 891

2:03 pm January 19, 2011

No good writers even with fiction do a great deal of research…. as you know I'm married to one. I know what goes into the books into the games. However, they don't always know where to look for accurate information. It's very very difficult with things involving the sidhe because there is such a huge body of literature out there, it's hard to weed through, and even the stuff that was written closer to the source, … well not everyones experience with them is the same… Irish the sidhe who I am closest to what's written about him much of it is sooooo not what my experience has been… some have even called him a demon…. and I mean him personally. Trust me, he's no demon, quite the contrary he's one of the kindest most loving …creatures I've ever met.
so I don't condem these people in the least it's just maybe they're getting their info right from the source rather than rehashing old stuff that other people have experienced. I mean Morrgian she's very much a nature goddess from my experience, yes she's also involved with conflicts shes a battle queen for sure but when she's not fighting where is she? She comes across very strongly in the woods here. No one who knows her has been back there but it would be interesting to see if they feel this too.

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Member

Adamaris

posts 195

2:15 pm January 19, 2011

"The characters are sometimes loosely based in legend but I doubt they do more than read a brief introduction which may or may not have information in it that is close to the source."

heh.

I thought it was hilarious that the lead writer for Dragon Age:Origins (a video game) named the lead female character Morrigan, who is a shapeshifting "Witch of the Wilds", but was completely baffled by people drawing comparisons to the character and the mythological Morrigan. He had no idea there even was one. He just took the name off of a character his friend made for Dungeons and Dragons.

DUDE. Morrigan is my FAVORITE Dragon Age:Origins character even though she can be a little harsh at times. That is so interesting how the writer had no idea that Morrigan is a celtic goddess. I find all the characters in Dragon Age to be strangely more lively and charming than in any other video game I've ever played…in a way.

I used to read those "Legend of Drizzt" books back in the days…Pan's Labyrinth is amazing, too. There is just something really haunting about it. Every time I watch one of Guillermo del Toro's movies, I can't help but wonder if he's actually seen something supernatural. And now I know. Thanks for the link NickN!

Okay…I'll stop getting off topic and being nerdy.

"With the realization of one's own potential and self-confidence in one's ability, one can build a better world" – Dalai Lama

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

I love Pan's Labyrinth

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Moderator

Heaven's Divinity

posts 937

8:05 pm January 19, 2011

People

should learn to look with their heart and soul instead of their eyes.

The world would be a lot better place if people learn to do so—- Heaven's Divinity

Member

Summer Rush

Minnesota

posts 79

4:10 pm January 22, 2011

Hmm, I've seen Slayers before, though only one of the movies… I love the anime Durarara!! and Celty is one of my favorite characters ever :P
I think it's interesting how sometimes people don't even know the origin of things they write about.
I find the Dullahan an interesting subject, but I find it rather… hard to believe that it actually has a whip made of human spine and a head the texture of moldy cheese :P Which brings me to the question, how do we KNOW if common descriptions of Fae are even accurate…?

Be the Frootloop in a world of Cheerios.

Member

Athidal

posts 646

5:15 pm January 22, 2011

That's a very good question, Summer-chan! And if we add to it the fact that the Irish, from whom we get many of our stories, are a bit famous for not letting facts stand in the way of a good story (no offence, I love Irish stories ^_^)… and the Church has always tended to make things from the Otherworld sound hellish and demonic just on general principles… well, matters do get confusing, don't they?

I think it may be best to treat the old tales as a good place to start the search for knowledge…but also to take them with a grain of salt. This is one of the reasons I'm glad Susan and Natalie and Mr. E are here with us, to try and cut through some of the malarky! XD

Member

Bluefirephoenix

posts 891

6:30 pm January 22, 2011

Add to that they can change appearance. Took me 3 days to figure out the redhead who showed up in a dream I had a couple nights ago was Irish. Usually has dark hair and he totally fooled me. I thought it was someone else and I'm really relieved it was him.

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